Five Rivers Futures: Our Care Leaver Offer
Last year we ran a collection of podcasts dedicated entirely to celebrating care leavers from across the UK as part of our fourth podcast series, ‘Care to Listen?’, in line with National Care Leavers’ Week. In the final episode, reflecting on our conversations with care leavers of their success and challenges, we spoke to Five Rivers Child Care CEO and founder Pam McConnell, and Clinical Services Research Assistant Hannah Gilding about a new initiative created to support our care leavers as they take on those challenges: Five Rivers Futures.
Five Rivers Futures – addressing the needs of care leavers
In the year leading up to our 30th anniversary, we began to notice a level of distress where young people had left the service. Having had a positive experience during their time in care, our young people were then finding that as they transferred from being looked-after to being a care leaver that they were beginning to struggle, and although foster carers were still trying to reach out and support them, some of the difficulties they were getting into were quite hard to cope with as families.
As we engaged in these conversations, particularly with our fostering service, we found that some of our young people were struggling to find accommodation, struggling with drug and alcohol problems, with employment and finding further training. “A couple of young people had sadly got into really serious difficulties, and that was what really prompted us to come back together as a senior team, and say, as you would hope to do with your own children growing up, that you want to be able to provide something more.” (Pam McConnell)
Collectively, our young people expressed a need for more targeted support as to not simply drop off the radar once they left care, otherwise known as the ‘care cliff’, but instead remain just as connected to the caring network that is so carefully built up while they are in care. In turn, we reflected on how we can nurture a loving care system that will turn children’s lives around. Out of this need, Five Rivers Futures was born – a volunteer-run befriending service, financial grant scheme, information signpost, employment advisor, advocacy support and leaving care gift package all rolled into one.
A supporting network so no care leaver feels lost or alone
“We have teamed up with national care leavers charity, Become, who provide a service for 16-25 year olds, and what we’ve been able to do is draw on an even bigger network of expertise. We focus on the befriending service, which is something that Become don’t offer. Although they have young people’s services and advice, they don’t have the resource to offer befriending, so they were very delighted that, should they come across any young people from Five Rivers, they can actually refer them back to us for the befriending support.”
This interconnected support system between Five Rivers and Become, that can be accessed online, via telephone and email, will hope to ensure that no care leaver feels lost or alone during a time of need. “This is not an emergency crisis service but is about having someone who can be regularly in touch with care leavers whenever they wish, encouraging them, helping them with skills, information, but most of all, being that support that’s there for them, someone in your corner.” (Pam McConnell)
Celebrating success – however big or small
As well as in times of need, we would love to hear from our care leavers for a chat or to share some good news. There are a lot of poor statistics that surround care leavers, many to do with higher education, and we want to change that narrative in whatever way we can.
“I think that it’s very unfair to judge care leavers with the same stick that you would maybe judge people that have come from a more secure base, who have been in education without any problems coming up. There are lots of different ways that we could measure success, lots of different types of success. For young people that have left care, they’re having to be independent at an age that may be sooner than other young people, and they’re having to look after their finances, look after themselves, look after a home, and manage different relationships for the first time. I don’t think the statistics we have at the moment are really measuring that and measuring what it means to be a care leaver that is successful and has skills in different areas.” (Hannah Gilding)
This was supported by Five Rivers care leaver, Dr Cat Hugman, who revealed during an interview last year that, according to her research, care leavers were likely to attend university much later in life (around the age of 25) compared to their peers (age 18 or 19). Acknowledging this, we ensure that as a social enterprise, we can guide our care leavers through education and beyond, including generating job opportunities.
Support with finance, employment and befriending
“One of the things that we do as a social enterprise is ask for our suppliers to give a meaningful work experience to young people in care that ask for one; so not one where it’s just a dreary job, but to give them a taste of something as a career opportunity. The other part is that, if a young person who has been in care applies for a job, they will give them a meaningful interview, and really seriously consider them for that role, even if they don’t appear to meet the qualifications.”
“This is in recognition of the fact that many care leavers have an interrupted education profile but nevertheless possess all the characteristics that make them a wonderful employee, very tenacious, persistent, full of personality, energy, drive – all of those great things that, as an employer, you want to see. We see it as a strength-based approach, rather than a deficit-based approach. It’s something we believe in, as an organisation, for everybody, working to people’s strengths, and embracing things like neurodiversity, but that is even more meaningful for children that have been in the looked-after system, and are now care leavers.” (Pam McConnell)
Futures provides another point of contact
Futures not only provides support for care leavers but can offer peace of mind for foster carers and their family. A lot of our foster carers want the young people to still be a part of their family and have that relationship but may have new children who have entered their care.
“Five Rivers Futures just aims to be another point of contact for those young people, and when you phone Five Rivers Futures, you’re going to have 45 minutes of that person’s full attention, who is trained and there to listen to you. Futures is not there to replace those connections with carers and support workers, but it’s there to just provide another point of contact.” (Hannah Gilding)
“Research shows that people need around 25 points of contact or support in their lives in order to thrive. Now, that can be graded from very close, even in the same household, but it can also be the people that you maybe see when you stop at the local café for a coffee, or wherever it might be.” (Pam McConnell)
We understand that Futures could become one of those points of resilience, support, and can make that vital difference between just feeling too lonely and isolated, to actually coping and managing. Five Rivers remains committed to our child centred approach which doesn’t end when young people reach 18 years old. So, any young people that have been in our care – whether years ago or only recently – they’re very welcome to contact us for support.
For more information on Five Rivers Futures, you can email us on futures@five-rivers.org, or telephone us on 01722 516091, or mobile 07860 879391.
Text Transcript
Hello, and welcome to Care to Listen?. In this, our fourth series, we are celebrating National Care Leavers’ Week. We take this opportunity to celebrate the successes and achievements of care leavers from across the UK. So we spoke to several care leavers this week about their successes and their challenges, but I thought it would be nice to talk to Pam McConnell and Hannah Gilding about their Five Rivers Futures project, which is a new initiative from Five Rivers, created to support our own care leavers in times of challenge. Welcome, Pam and Hannah.
Pam McConnell: Hi.
Hannah Gilding: Hello.
Pam McConnell: Thank you for asking us.
Lovely to see you all. Hannah, would you like to start, and tell us a little bit about who you are, and what you do?
Hannah Gilding: Yes, so I am a Graduate Research Assistant who works in the assessment and therapy team at Five Rivers, so I help with collection of psychological and wellbeing assessments, and I’m also a volunteer for the Five Rivers Futures Befriending Service.
And Pam, would you like to introduce yourself, please?
Pam McConnell: Yes, I’m the Founder of Five Rivers, the organisation. So we started 31 years ago. I’m also CEO, so I work with the senior team, and all the teams working alongside us to actually deliver really excellent services for children that are looked after.
And, Pam, can you tell us what prompted you to set up Futures?
Pam McConnell: Yes, we started the Futures service because, in the year leading up to our 30th anniversary, I was able to go round and sit in on some of the team meetings, and particularly in the fostering service, there was quite a level of distress, where young people had left the service, having had a very good, positive experience, but then had found that, as they kind of fell between different services, that they were really beginning to struggle, and that although foster carers were still trying to reach out and help support them, some of the difficulties they were getting into were quite hard to cope with as families. So they were seeing their young people, as they’d left, struggling to get accommodation, struggling with drugs and alcohol problems, and also getting jobs, or getting further training. And the distress was really quite acute, and the social workers, themselves, felt very distressed, and there were a couple of young people who sadly had got into really serious difficulties, and that was really what prompted us to come back together as a senior team, and say, as you would hope to do with your own children growing up, that you want to be able to provide something more, so support to the foster carers beyond the age of 18 and 19, and also to the young people themselves. So we thought that a volunteer service, provided from the people at the head office, where they would love to be more involved in supporting young people, and we wanted to actually be able to offer a befriending service, so that there was a mixture of advice being available, helping signpost to different services, small grants being available in emergencies, but, most importantly, to help deal with that loneliness of not knowing where else to turn to, and having someone to be able to be at the end of a phone, or online, to be able to sort of relate to. And this was just prior to COVID, so it happened to, sort of, coincide with the kind of rollout of people working a lot more remotely, but that’s how it all got started.
Hannah, what would you say are the biggest challenges that care leavers face?
Hannah Gilding: I think that there’s a lot of challenges for care leavers. I think that that age group… because we’re talking about 18 to 25-year-olds, and I think there’s a lot of challenges for people of that age. It’s a big point of transition in life, in that you might be deciding to go on to further education, or you might be deciding on a career path, or what job you want to do, and I think for care leavers, on top of that, they have the stress of not having a support base, and a family support system. And I think that a lot of care leavers are thrown into independence before other people of the same age, and they’re having to manage their finances, and different bills that are coming out, and having to look after themselves, and look after a home, for the first time, potentially. And I think that they’re coming up against all those challenges without that family support system that other people have, and I think that that’s why Five Rivers Futures came to be, in that it’s (? 04.54)… we’re trying to provide that emotional support. Because I think that that is a big challenge for people that are leaving care, is perhaps not having that same emotional support as other people do, because we’re all going to have these challenges that come up, and things that are difficult, but it’s having someone to talk to, at some point, to ask for help, or just to have a chat, really. And I think that that’s probably one of the biggest difficulties.
Yeah, it’s some of those little things, you know, like about defrosting and refreezing chickens, and…
Hannah Gilding: Yeah.
…just the sort of things that we’re all, kind of, like, “Mum, how do I do this? How do I do that?”
Hannah Gilding: Yeah, definitely.
Yeah. So, Pam, what services can care leavers from Five Rivers expect to receive from the Futures project?
Pam McConnell: Well, we’ve actually now partnered with the Become organisation, the Become charity, who actually provide a service for 16-pluses, so they might still actually be in care, going through to the age of 25, and what they’ve been able to do is draw on an even bigger network of expertise. So we thought what we should do is really focus on the befriending part, which is something that Become don’t do. So although they have young people’s, kind of, different services, and that, again, is advice, and signposting, and so on, and advice about money and accommodation, they don’t actually have the resource to do the befriending, so they were very delighted that, should they come across any young people from Five Rivers, they can actually refer them back to us for the befriending support. But internally, so from our social workers and foster carers, they can contact us about any young people that they continue to be concerned about, both in terms of helping financially, with small grants, but also, probably most importantly, that befriending service, and again, that would be delivered on the phone, or online. So we have our team of volunteers, who’ve been through their special training, and are supported by a second tier of senior staff, and then a third tier, just to back up the senior staff, in the event of anything unusual. But it’s not there as a crisis service, and that was really made clear from the beginning, that it’s not appropriate to try and manage resources, you know, with so many moving parts, on that kind of emergency crisis basis; but this is about having someone who’s regularly in touch with you, interested in how you’re doing, encouraging you, helping you with skills, helping you with information, but, most of all, being that support that’s there for you, someone in your corner.
Mm-hm. Lovely. So if I am a care leaver, you know, for example, I left Five Rivers years ago, and I’ve found myself unemployed after losing my job, say, after the coronavirus, and I’m feeling quite worried, I’m worried about being able to find a job, and maybe not having enough money to make ends meet, I don’t have access to the computer, or the internet, and I’m struggling to update my CV, what could Five Rivers do, in terms of supporting me?
Pam McConnell: Well, I think what would happen, in that situation… so imagine that perhaps they spoke to someone that they know, still in Five Rivers, that person would then contact us by email, and they would sort of give us the opportunity to make contact, so we’d obviously have to get permission, and so on. But then we would set up how do we make contact with them? Especially, perhaps, if they can’t afford to keep a phone contract running. So that might be something that’s the first utilisation of some resources, so that it might be as simple as making sure that we can get hold of them, and they can get hold of us. Then we would be talking to them about the different types of support, and we’d obviously help them with looking up some of the information about their area. And then part of the befriending would be to talk them through different scenarios. So it might be, for example, you know, have they done all the things that they can do to find a job? And then there’s the kind of pep talk bit, that we all need, to yes, go on out there, try it. “Are you looking your best?” You know, “Tell us what you’re wearing. Is that the thing to wear for that kind of an interview?” the kind of chat, backwards and forwards, that you need from someone who’s considered a good friend or family member, I suppose. But, again, young people like to hear from people more their own age, so most of our befrienders are very young, themselves, so, you know, just recently out of university, in the first parts of their career. So they’re actually quite close to some of the issues, having, you know, left home, found out about independence, finding your own accommodation, finding your first jobs, all of those things, that they can actually really relate to from their own first-hand experience. And I think that adds a terrific value, because there’s nothing like talking to someone who’s been through it themselves, and not too long ago.
So, Hannah, there’s lots of poor statistics that surround care leavers. Do you think that the lens by which we judge people’s success is problematic, and perhaps we are imposing a bit of a middle-class value on to our care leavers, in terms of their success?
Hannah Gilding: Yeah, yeah, I think that’s definitely true. I think that a lot of the statistics that are out there are to do with higher education, and how many care leavers have entered into university, for example. And I think that it’s very unfair to judge care leavers with the same stick that you would maybe judge people that have come from more of a secure base, and family support system, who have been in education, and went through their years of education without any… without any problems coming up. And I think that there’s lots of different ways that we could measure success, there’s lots of different types of success. And for young people that have left care, they’re having to be independent at an age that may be sooner than other young people are, and they’re having to look after their finances, look after themselves, look after a home, and manage different relationships for the first time. And I think that there’s lots of different ways in life that you can be successful, and I don’t think the statistics we have at the moment are really measuring that, and measuring what it means to be a care leaver that is successful, and has skills in different areas.
Yes, right, because you could be a young mum, and be a terribly successful young mum. So when I interviewed Dr Cat Hugman, last year, her research was based around the number of care leavers that attend university, and her research found that care leavers just attended university much later in life, so around the age of 25, and not alongside their peers, at 18 or 19, so we need to be very careful about these statistics that are bandied around. Pam, have you got anything that you would like to add to that?
Pam McConnell: Well, I think one of the things that is particularly different about Five Rivers, we are a social enterprise, and one of the things that we do as a social enterprise is ask for our suppliers, for example, to give a meaningful work experience to young people in care that ask for one; so not one where it’s just a drudgery, dreary job, but to give them something, a taste of something, as a career opportunity. And the other part is that, if a young person who’s been in care applies for a job, to give them a meaningful interview, and really seriously consider them for that role, even if they don’t appear to meet the qualifications. And that’s in recognition of the fact that many care leavers have an interrupted education profile, but they’ve got characteristics that actually make them a wonderful employee to have, you know, very tenacious, persistent, full of personality, energy, drive, and all of those great things that, as an employer, you want to see. So that’s something that we’ve done, and again, just would really welcome anyone looking at how you use a strength-based approach, rather than a deficit-based approach. It’s something we believe in, as an organisation, for everybody, working to people’s strengths, and embracing things like neurodiversity, but that is even more meaningful for children that have been in the looked-after system, and are now care leavers.
Yeah. Lovely. Pam, you’ve fostered, and worked in the industry for a long time. What is your experience of young people’s long-term attachment to foster carers? You’ve got your own story, haven’t you?
Pam McConnell: Well, I have. I mean, the first bit is just to say, I always think of it as a sector, rather than an industry. I’ve got a particular dislike, and again, that speaks to the social enterprise part, of people treating it as though it’s a business, and… and something… it has a different ring to it, so just to mention that. Because I think that’s important, and for young people, they feel very distressed when they’re thought of as a commodity, and I think that’s important, and I know that we all work very hard to keep children at the centre of the way we think, and talk, and speak – and I think that’s a good example – that we can sometimes think it’s something very far removed from children’s lives.
You know, Pam, I’m really glad that you picked me up on the use of the words the care industry. You’re quite right, I hadn’t really thought about it before, but I think we… you’re right, we as professionals need to be careful about the narrative and the use of language that we use when we talk about our children and families. So thank you for picking me up on that, I’ll be very mindful of using it in the future.
Pam McConnell: So I fostered, and so I was very privileged, I sort of worked with a department who was very happy for me to actually be a single foster carer, at the time, but I did then get married, and we were then jointly approved as foster carers, and the children who came as an emergency stayed with me permanently. And one of the things that really rings, in my mind, is that from the point at which they no longer had to stay, they really relished that being part of the family, so they each stayed many years beyond their 18th birthday, and it was fascinating to see how they suddenly were able to let themselves be part of the family, rather than being fostered. And so that’s something I’ve always thought, how do we help overcome those barriers, so that children really feel that sense of belonging, and being loved and important? So it’s a huge task, as parenting is, but it’s just enormous, when you’re actually trying to be that person that helps not only love them now, but helps to do some of the repair for what happened before. So yes, it’s been a great passion of mine, and a lifelong passion, and, as I say, now we’re into our 31st year, so it’s still incredibly important to me.
Wow. I’m always very impressed, chatting to you about these things. Hannah, I imagine it’s sometimes very difficult for carers to juggle attachment with care leavers, and with the children currently in placement, you know, you might end up with a very large family. Does Futures go some way to assisting in managing this load?
Hannah Gilding: I hope that it does. I think that it is a very difficult thing, for both young people that are care leavers, and the foster carers, it’s a very difficult transition to manage, in a lot of ways. And I think, as Pam said, that a lot of our foster carers, they want the young people to still be part of their family, and they want to still have that connection and that relationship, but they have got new placements, as well, and new children that they’re caring for, a lot of the time. And I think it’s that practicality, of how much support can I provide to all of these people at once? And I think that Five Rivers Futures just aims to be another point of contact for those young people, and another place that they could come to. And when you phone Five Rivers Futures, you’re going to have 45 minutes, or whatever the agreed time limit, of that person’s full attention, who is trained, and there to listen to you, and to be empathetic, and who’s not perhaps got other things that are going on, and other children that they’re caring for, as well. So I think it helps to… it doesn’t… it’s not there to replace those connections, but it’s there to help support them, and to just provide another place to come to.
Yeah. And I had a young man who got in touch with me the other day, who I was his children’s home manager, 15 years ago…
Pam McConnell: Wow.
…and it would’ve been nice to have had an organisation to lean on, just in terms of making the right decisions about supporting someone after such a long time; so it would’ve been nice for that organisation to have something like Futures there, to help me unpick the situation, and know what was the right way forward. So, Hannah, would you say that this service extends to both the residential services and the fostering services equally?
Hannah Gilding: Yes, so we are available for all care leavers from Five Rivers. I’m aware that we’ve mainly discussed foster carers and young people from fostering placements, which is possibly due to the fact we have more fostering placements in our service, but we would also equally encourage young people who’ve been in Five Rivers residential service to contact us, as well.
Pam, what’s your wish for care leavers, and your Futures project?
Pam McConnell: Well, what I’d love to see is for it to become really embedded into how we look after young people and help them through that transition, and for foster carers to feel that it’s something that they can actually turn to and rely on. So some of the time the work has actually been to help foster carers know how to help signpost the young people that they’re supporting. I think that’s another crucial bit, because if people get overfatigued with that kind of having to keep resolving problems, and find solutions, and not know where to turn to, and sometimes, you know, if they’re not in contact with a social worker, because maybe a child’s there with them as a young person on Staying Put, so it might be that they feel that they’re a little bit outside of the mainstay of support, as well. So it’s being able to offer that across to both the adults that had been looking after the young people, and the care leavers themselves. But the other thing I think that’s really important is that the research shows that people need, in order to thrive, something like 25 points of contact in their lives, where it offers them that kind of support. Now, that can be graded from very close, you know, sort of, in the same household support, and it can be, you know, the people that you maybe see when you stop at Costa for a coffee, or wherever it might be. So it’s understanding that we could become one of those points of resilience, support, and can make that vital difference between just feeling too lonely and isolated, to actually coping and managing, so it’s got a very vital role to play. And we haven’t really touched much on the grants, but we all know what a terrible thing it can be, if you… just for the sake of £25, you actually end up in all kinds of difficulties. So we want to make sure that our young people don’t have that kind of fall-over, where they make a bad decision, they connect with the wrong person because of a money problem, when we could actually do something to help step in. And this is money that was ringfenced from our 30th anniversary, sort of, time. We’re still very optimistic that this is a service that is so important that we’ll be able to keep it going, and are committing to trying to find a way to keep it going. So any young people out there that have been in our care – it doesn’t mean that they have to have only recently been in our care – they’re very welcome to contact us for that support, and our email, you’re going to put up for us, aren’t you, Olivia, so that they can actually see where to get in touch.
Yeah, I will do. Well, I’m really, really delighted to have been able to talk to both of you, and I’m very proud to be part of Five Rivers, and this Futures, and I’m actually quite keen to volunteer, myself, actually.
Pam McConnell: Great!
I’d love to stay in touch with some of the young people I’ve worked with. So I want to thank you very much, Pam McConnell, and also to Hannah Gilding, thank you very much for your time, and all the best.
Pam McConnell: Thank you.
Hannah Gilding: Thank you. Thanks very much for having us.
Pam McConnell: Thank you.
And for more information on our Futures project, you can email us on futures@five-rivers.org, or telephone us on 01722 516091, or mobile 07860 879391.
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Thank you for listening. Care to Listen? has been created by a democratic group of children and young people from within the Five Rivers fostering family. Our aim is to elevate the voices of people who have care or lived experience, to challenge stereotyping, to fight for better rights, equality, understanding, and to celebrate all of our uniqueness. Thank you for listening. For more information, contact us on participation@five-rivers.org.
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